Thanks for the brand new offer that we hadn’t seen ahead of

I don’t know should you have accessibility Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or otherwise not, because try created while the a guide to have Americans with colonial ancestors out of Plantagenet lineage. The guy brings among his proofs you to definitely Joanna are the new mommy away from Gwladus Ddu the marrying a uruguayan lady fact Llewelyn provided the attributes out of Knighton and you will Norton castles inside Shropshire so you can Ralph Mortimer whenever he and Gwladus were hitched. It would had been illegal for Llewelyn provide Joanna’s assets to help you a keen illegitimate daughter (otherwise individual who was not a child off Joanna). New features out of Norton and you can Knighton stayed on the Mortimer family members thereafter. The fresh new estimate are, “That in case new King offer Land so you’re able to one with good lady out of their kindred in the honest relationship, and woman dyeth rather than matter, the person on Kings situation will not wait to have their life, since the lady caused the this new current.” Put differently, the latest qualities could have reverted returning to brand new top before it would-have-been made available to an infant who was not Joanna’s.

Hello, Marilyn, I didn’t gain access to the newest Plantaganet Ancestry by the Doug Richardson, however, did have access to the many discussions of your and his theories with other genealogists (particular getting your, but the majority of and facing). In my opinion, while i produced in my personal previous paper, one just what shifts it for my situation(Joanna being the mother off Gwladus), ‘s the import of your own characteristics your speak about in order to Ralph de- Mortimer abreast of his ed a couple of the youngsters ‘John’ and ‘Joan.’ I cannot that is amazing when the Gwladus had been the new ded their unique youngsters for this reason. Regardless of the objections amongst the eminent genealogists I discuss more than, discover a broad opinion you to Gwladus Ddu would be reasonably recognized as the newest daughter out-of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth from the Joanna, child (subsequently legitimised) out of John, King out-of England. Allow me to just take which opportunity to go along with Sharon (inside a message in my opinion) one Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian was because of the Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, and therefore being bloodstream brother in order to Gruffudd. I foot that it partially to your a modern listing found in ‘Royal or any other Historical characters Illustrative of your own rule away from Henry 111,’ edited by the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. Into the users five-hundred-503 is the transcript from a unique page old Marshall, Earl away from Pembroke, so you’re able to Queen Henry 111. Contained in this letter, Marshall discusses their siege of the castles off Crum, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. He directories individuals the guy based in the castle O’Realy whenever it surrendered, they included: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi mais aussi Thomae ….” I’m told this particular implies that we have right here Gwenllian, daughter of Prince llywelyn, which appears to be called ‘cousin out of Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd are the brand new illegitimate child from Llywelyn, it is pulled you to ‘de patre mais aussi matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd was indeed complete bloodstream aunt and brother. Got Gwenllian started Joanna’s child and that Queen Henry’s relative, seriously Marshall could have said thereon facts? That it failure out of de- Lacy’s spouse once the king’s niece, was drawn as near certain research one to Gwenllian wasn’t new child of your king’s cousin Joanna.

These characteristics have been section of Joanna’s maritagium of their unique father Queen John

Ken: Thank you for you to definitely mention of Gwenllian. I am definitely not an expert genealogist, however, I do enough browse by myself outlines. I do believe some of the “pros” are extremely jealous and you will crazy each and every almost every other (at least evidently ways in a number of of the things it post). You will find items that we’re just not attending understand with certainty regarding the members of the newest MA while they did not keep public record information including we carry out now, very genealogists and historians need to use their best view for the sorting one thing aside. In fact, vital records was a fairly “new” build – of many states here in the us failed to continue suggestions out-of births and you can fatalities through to the early 1900’s. We belong to several lineage societies in which I’ve had so you’re able to establish eleven or twelve generations, and trust in me it is hard. Therefore i very delight in the situation off researching MA forefathers. (In addition to sad question is the fact that details available with the MA are of your royalty and you will nobility – nothing anyway to the popular anyone).